Pride and Prejudice

Discussion Leaders

3/21-Albana

3/22-Hanna

3/23-Albana

3/24-Savanah

3/25-Albana

3/28-Hanna

Discussion Log 1- Chapters 1-10

•  What do you think of Mrs. Bennet?

-I didn’t like that she sent Jane to Mr. Bingley’s house when she knew the storm was imminent.

-I thought it was ridiculous that Mrs. Bennet tried to force Jane and Elizabeth to stay at Mr. Bingley’s house even though they overstayed their welcome.

-She thinks too highly of Jane and criticized Charlotte of being too “plain” (pg. 30).

-I feel as if Mrs. Bennet has a hidden motive to benefit from her daughters being well off in their marriage because they can then support their parents.

-It’s ironic that Mrs. Bennet thinks she is sensible and intelligent when in fact she is a shallow character because she only thinks of marrying off her daughters (pg. 19).

•  Did Mr. Darcy strike you as egotistical?

-Mr. Darcy was minding his own business but others characterized him as egotistical.

-He is a quite blunt when talking about others because he says outright that Elizabeth is “tolerable; but not handsome enough to tempt me…” (pg 7).

-He doesn’t display any emotions but he is in truth interested in Jane Bennet because he says, “You are dancing with the only handsome girl in the room” (pg 7).

-It’s ironic that the members of Mrs. Bennet’s community believe Mr. Darcy is egotistical but he thinks of himself as proud and not vain.

-“Vanity and pride are different things, though the words are often used synonymously. A person may be proud without being vain. Pride relates more to our opinion of ourselves, vanity to what we would have others think of us” (pg 12-13).

-Mr. Darcy has the right to be proud because of his fortunes so his opinion of himself is high, but he doesn’t concern himself with what others think of him and therefore he is neither vain nor egotistical.

•  Are the dances a means of reaching social expectations? Are they a motif for society?

-Yes

-Mr. Darcy says, “[Dancing] has the advantage also of being in vogue amongst the less polished societies of the world.-Every savage can dance” (pg 16)

-It seems as if Mr. Darcy thinks that society is engaging in an act below the social status of the rich and wealthy because even “savages” can dance together so the social classes are intermixed.

-“Mr. Bingley thought her quite beautiful, and danced with her twice” (pg 8).

-Mr. Bingley dancing twice with Jane means that she has a greater chance of captivating his heart and therefore marrying him. He is a wealthy man with a huge estate and that would help Jane move up the social ladder.

-The more a girl dances with a specific man, the more likely it is that she will advance in society.

•  What is a major theme in the first section of the book?

-One of the major themes is that women need men in order to be respected by other members of society.

-"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife" (pg 1)

-The novel starts with this theme as its first sentence. The novel acknowledges that a woman must have a wealthy husband in order to be well off.

-"That [Elizabeth] should have walked three miles so early in the day, in such dirty weather, and by herself, was almost incredible to Mrs. Hurst and Miss Bingley..." (pg. 21-22).

-They were shocked that Elizabeth came all alone because usually women were escorted by men.

-Women don't seem to have an identity without the men because they depended on men for their welfare.

-Society set up a social hierarchy where the men have the leading roles and the women depend on on them through marriage into a higher social class so they can also be wealthy. 

Discussion Log 2-Chapters 11-20

• What do you think of Elizabeth?

-She is more independent than the other girls because she rejected Mr. Collin's proposal for marriage against her mother's wishes (Ch 19),

-She expresses interest in Mr. Wickham at the ball to annoy Mr. Darcy.

-"We are each of an unsocial, taciturn disposition, unwilling to speak, unless we expect to say something that will amaze the whole room, and be handed down to posterity with all the eclat of a proverb" (pg. 63).

-She is trying to spite Mr. Darcy by pointing out his flaws indirectly by including herself.

-It's ironic that Elizabeth tells her mom not to offend Mr. Darcy when she does not approve of him (pg 69).

-She is realistic in her expectations because when Jane received the letter from Mr. Bingley, Elizabeth immediately knew that his sisters were trying to pull Mr. Bingley away from Jane.

• Do you think Mr.Collins is shallow?

-Yes

-Mr. Collins expresses interest in many girls within a period of a week.

-"As I must therefore conclude that you are not serious in your rejection of me, I shall chuse to attribute it to your wish of increasing my love by suspense, according to the ususal practice of elegant females" (pg 75).

-He thinks so highly of himself that he cannot understand why Elizabeth would reject his proposal.

-His reasons for marrying are egotistic- he thinks it's right for clergyman (like himself) to marry, he needs a wife because she would happiness to his life, and because Lady Catherine told him to get married. He doesn't actually care about Elizabeth's feelings for him or her happiness (pg 73).

-His perception of reality is distorted- when he talks to Mr. Darcy, Mr. Collins flatters him, but Mr. Darcy's responses are blunt, but Mr. Collins takes it as a compliment (pg 68),

• What do you think of Jane Austen's tone toward Mr. Collins? 

-Her tone toward Mr. Collins is ridiculing . She always portrays him as a fool, filled with vanity.

-"His cousin was as absurd as he had hoped, and he listened to him with the keenest enjoyment, maintaining at the same time the most resolute composure of countenance, and except in an occasional glance at Elizabeth, requiring no parnter in his pleasure" (pg 46).

-Mr. Bennet realizes that Mr. Collins is cursory because he makes up compliments to give to Lady Catherine in his spare time. Through Mr. Bennet, Jane Austen ridicules the character of Mr. Collins.

-"He thought too well of himself to comprehend on what motive his cousin could refuse him; and though his pride was hurt, he suffered in no other way" (pg 78).

-She ridicules his egotisitical nature of thinking so highly of himself that he ignores the opinions of others.

Discussion Log 3- Chapters 21-30

• What do you think of Mr. Bingley not writing to Jane himself?

-He seemed to really like her so it's doubtful that he forgot to write to her. I feel like his sisters forced him to lose contact with Jane because she was below Mr. Bingley's social status and she didn't have any connections.

-I think he was unjust in hurting Jane because she was sweet and kind towards him and she only thought of his good qualities while ignoring his flaws.

-"'It is evident by this,' added Jane, 'that he comes back no more this winter,"' (pg 81).

-Jane seems to think that he lost interest in her and he is so independent that he would not let others opinions get in the way of him staying with Jane.

-"...when I call Charles most capable of engaging any woman's heart," (pg 82).

-Jane thinks that Mr. Bingley has fallen in love with Miss Darcy and that she was just his passing fancy.

• What do you think Rosings is a motif of?

-"...and was but slightly affected by his enumeration of the windows in front of the house, and his relation of what the glazing alltogether had originally cost Sir Lewis de Bourgh" (pg 110).

-The house symbolizes the power and authority that Lady Catherine posses over the families that live in the surrounding area and it also symbolizes the fear she inspires in others (like Sir William Lucas who could not speak in the presence of her great authority).

-"...and his daughter, frightened almost out of her senses, sat on the edge of her chair, not knowing which way to look," (pg. 110).

-Her house symbolizes the fear Lady Catherine inspires in her guests and the lack of warmth with which she receives visitors.

• Do you see any dramatic irony? 

-Yes.

-When Mr. Darcy walks to Elizabeth's favorite place, he does so because he likes her but Elizabeth doesn't know that and is therefore surprised to meet him in her favorite place (pg. 120).

-It's ironic that the readers know that Elizabeth doesn't like Mr. Darcy but he's going to propose to her soon and we know that Elizabeth will refuse and reject his proporsal.

Discussion Log 4- Chapters 31-40

• What do you think about Elizabeth's growing independence? 

-"From the very beginning, from the first moment I may almost say, of my acquaintance with you, your manners impressing me with the fullest belief of your arrogance, your conceit, and your selfish disdain of the feelings of others, were such as to form that groundwork of disapprobation, on which succeeding events have built so immovable a dislike; and I had not known you a  month before I felt that you were the last man in the world whom I could ever be prevailed on to marry" (pgs 131-132).

-She is so independent that she refuses the marriage proposal of Mr. Darcy, who is a prominent member in society with much wealth.

-She defies the demands of society, which require her to marry a wealthy man in order to move up the social ladder.

-It is unconventional of her to defy her mother's desires for her to marry a rich man.

-Unlike the other girls who desire to get married for wealth and social status, Elizabeth examines Mr. Darcy's character before she makes her decision to refuse his proposal.

-It is ironic that while she dislikes Mr. Darcy's characteristics, she is much like him in her thoughtfulness. Just as Mr. Darcy is quiet and keeps his thoughts to himself, Elizabeth does so as well. She walked around the Rosings grounds to contemplate alone.

• What do you think about Mr. Darcy's letter to Elizabeth?

-I think it is sincere because he has no reason to lie to her since she refused his proposal and does not expect her to assent later. 

-"It pains me to offend you. But amidst your concern for the defects of your nearest relations, and your displeasure at this representation of them, let it give you consolation to consider that, to have conducted yourself so as to avoid any share of the like censure, is praise no less generally bestowed on you and your eldest sister, than is honourable to the sense and disposition of both" (pgs 134-135).

-It is ironic Mr. Darcy is blunt when referring to her family even though he wants her approval. He is frank and outspoken in the letter when he is reserved and shy at the balls.

- He is describing the flaws of Elizabeth's family while trying to improve his character in her eyes.

-Elizabeth was ashamed that what he said about her family was true and she was finally considering the flaws of her own family rather than the flaws of other people.

• Does Elizabeth experience a change after receiving the letter?

- "But vanity, not love, has been my folly.- Pleased with the preference of one, and offended by the neglect of the other, on the very beginning of our acquaintance, I have courted prepossession and ignorance, and driven reason away, where either were concerned. Till this moment, I never knew myself" (pg 141).

-Elizabeth experiences a turning point in her character. She loses her prejudice of Mr. Darcy as being a conceited and selfish man.

-She begins to realize that her resolute impression of dislike towards him had caused her to see only his flaws.

-It is ironic that she now calls herself vain when before she explicitly believed Mr. Darcy to possess that characteristic.

-"And with no one to speak to , of what I felt, no Jane to comfort me and say that I had not been so very weak and vain and nonsensical as I knew I had!" (pg 152).

-She realizes her ignorance at  being determined to dislike Mr. Darcy because of his outward apperance of pride.

Discussion Log 5- Chapters 41-50

• Do you think Mr. Darcy still loves Elizabeth?

-Yes

-"Will you allow me, or do I ask too much, to introduce my sister to your acquaintance during your stay at Lambton?" (pg 171).

-Mr. Darcy wants Elizabeth to meet his sister, so therefore Mr. Darcy is still interested in her; he wants to show Elizabeth to his closest family member.

-"'But perhaps he may be a little whimsical in his civilities,' replied her uncle" (pg 172).

-Mr. Darcy shows more respect and civility towards Elizabeth's aunt and uncle than he ever showed Elizabeth, even though he thinks her family has a low social status and little connections.

-He is trying to win her over with his civility by showing her that he changed because of her accusations.

-We think it is ironic that Mr. Darcy still pursues Elizabeth's love even though he got rejected the first time, because he presents himself as vain and proud. We would have expected Mr. Darcy to believe himself to be above her and not heed her accusations.

• What do you think of Mr. Wickham and Lydia eloping?

-We think it is surprising that Mr. Wickham chose to elope with Lydia, because he was going to marry Miss King, who was going to inherit money, while Lydia didn't have anything to offer. 

-"'If we are ever able to learn what Wickham's debts have been,' said Elizabeth, 'and how much is settled on his side on our sister, we shall exactly know what Mr. Gardiner has done for them, because Wickham has not sixpence of his own'" (pg 204).

-Mr. Wickham probably expected Lydia's family to pay of his debts, and that is why he married Lydia.

-He left the town not to get bugged by the collectors and he didn't mind bringing Lydia along.

• What does Pemberly symbolize?

- "It was a large, handsome, stone building, standing well on a rising ground, and backed by a ridge of high woody hills;- and in front, a stream of some natural importance was swelled into greater, but without any artificial appearance" (pg 163).

-The house symbolizes Mr. Darcy and how he is handsome, and holds himself in an elevated position of respect.

-The majesty of the house reflects the immensity of his character and his kindness as described by his servant.

-"'I am sure I know none so handsome; but in the gallery up stairs you will see a finer, larger, picture of him than this'" (pg 165).

-Even Ms. Reynolds, the housekeeper, describes him as handsome and magnanimous.

-"'He is the best landlord, and the best master,' said she, 'that ever lived... There is not one of his tenants or servants but what will give him a good name'" (pg 166).

-The servants don't mind praising his qualities so therefore, Mr. Darcy must be truly kind.

Discussion Log 6- Chapters 51-61

• How has Mr. Darcy changed?

- Before arriving at Longbourn, Mr. Darcy was disapproving of Jane and Mr. Bingley's relationship, but when he spent a few days with them, he changed his mind and consented to Jane and Mr. Bingley being together.

-Mr. Darcy realizes that he has been mistaken in his conception of Jane's lack of interest in Mr. Bingley.

-"What do I not owe you! You taught me a leHer feelings toward Darcy are now what his were toward her earlier;sson, hard indeed at first, but most advantageous. By you, I am properly humbled. I came to you without a doubt of my reception. You shewed me how insufficient were all my pretensions to please a woman worthy of being pleased'" (pg 249).

-He himself realizes his mistakes and expresses the change of his character to Elizabeth.

-"Mr. Darcy was delighted with their engagement; his friend had given him the earliest information of it" (pg 249).

-He no longer cares about social status and is delighted with Jane and Mr. Bingley's union because it is truly about love and not about connections.

• What does Lady Catherine symbolize?

-Lady Catherine was the last obstacle to the union between Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth.

-"'You have no regard, then, for the honour and credit of my nephew! Unfeeling, selfish girl! Do you not consider that a connection with you, must disgrace him in the eyes of every body?'" (pg 240).

-Lady Catherine looked down on Elizabeth because of her low social status and tried to separate her from Mr. Darcy so that they would not get engaged.

-"; and she condescended to wait on them at Pemberley, in spite of that pollution which its woods had received, not merely from the presence of such a mistress, but the visits of her uncle and aunt from the city" (pgs 261-262).

-Lady Catherine still thinks that Elizabeth's aunt and uncle are below her as well as Elizabeth.

-Lady Catherine thought that if Mr. Darcy married Elizabeth, then she would lose her reputation and prestige, because others would look down on her since her nephew had married Elizabeth who came from a poor family. Lady Catherine despised and looked down on Elizabeth's family.

-"'Because honour, decorum, prudence, nay, interest, forbid it. Yes, Miss Bennet, interest; for do not expect to be noticed by his family or friends, if you wilfully act against the inclinations of all. You will be censured, slighted, and despised, by every one connected with him. Your alliance will be a disgrace; your name will never even be mentioned by any of us'" (pg 239).

-Lady Catherine tries to discourage Elizabeth from accepting Mr. Darcy's proposal for marriage by saying that she will be despised by his close friends and family members.

• Do you think it is ironic that Elizabeth refused Mr. Darcy?

-Yes

-"'He could still be amiable, still pleasing, to my uncle and aunt, when he was in town; and why not to me? If he fears me, why come hither? If he no longer cares for me, why silent? Teazing, teazing man! I will think no more about him'" (pg 227).

-It is ironic that Elizabeth is now concerned about how Mr. Darcy thinks of her and tries to pretend that she does not care how he feels about her. She behaves in the same way as Mr. Darcy had behaved earlier when expressing his affection for Elizabeth.

-It is ironic that Elizabeth expresses interest and even accepts Mr. Darcy's marriage proposal because when she had rejected him earlier, she had done so in a way that made it seem as if she completely despised him and would not give him a second chance.